Point (1) I dont doubt for a minute your honesty, however I am wondering under what conditions you are refering to. Yes I agree a basic XP system can be butchered and cannabilized of the native bloat that Microsoft ships with it, but the performance issues of a Windows platform really come into play with 3rd party software. In respect of XP, my stance has always been that its a mature stable and pretty good piece of coding in the main. If XP was still being supported as it once was, it would be a difficult one between that and Linux.
The problem with the benefits of XP is that really MS (IMO) does not want anyone with it, btw if we are talking optimised XP, theres a distro which is geared totally towards being an XP replacement (Ill have to find the name) instead of reinventing the wheel its basing itself of the established Windows replacement API code (Wine) and was recently featured in MicroMart (an off the shelf publication) apparently stability is still an issue in this early release, but its reported to absolutely fly!

XP, I have no real issue with, although your performance remarks I would like to take you on with my personaly tweaked Gentoo distro!! As I have “butchered” XP in the way I think you are refering.

Point(2) Agree, and its one of the reasons why my stance is that I dont want mass migration to the Linux platform. I am after more of an equal share. IF/When Linux was to exceed Windows usage (a very small chance IMO) I think the nature of it being open source would aid its security, and for every one dubious coder/hacker out there, there are plenty of public spirited contributors, with keeping the diverse nature of Linux distros (and the sheer number) I think if Linux (not one particular distro) hit mainstream usage, we would still see far less exploits and issues than we have in Windows.

I do though agree, to claim total security of any platform is simply wrong.

Point (3) nothing at all to disagree with here, except to add to your comment of “The updates to my OS are free and without restriction.” – Unfortunately your product life/direction is completely at the whim of the proprietary firm owning it. Hard luck if your a Vista user wanting speed optimizations like 7. It will be time to put your hand in your wallet again. (IMO)

Point(4) Yep agree, my comments were aimed more at the OS and community that contributes to it. Does Vista ever accept volunteer coders who want to donate their time to make it better?

Point(5) As I said before you (IMO) are speaking as a person who is informed and experienced. You do not represent a Joe Bloggs (IMO) Lets be honest, Microsoft does not want you to buy 3rd party software, it wants you to be 100% MS, thats why Windows (IMO) tries to be a jack of all trades, its links and enticements to the user to purchase further MS products are what keeps the average user “locked in” (IMO)

IMO Microsoft have dilluted the meaning of the word OS over the years. Being an ex Amiga user like myself I hope you will agree when I say that the purpose of an OS is to run quietly and unassumingly in the background, taking as little of the CPU resources as possible and acting as a platform for launching other software. Take a look at Vista/Win 7 do these really represent what you were being productive with in Workbench? At the end of the day (modern hardware aside) what actually is the OS doing that you were not doing in Workbench all those years ago? Sure it looks a little prettier, but really thats it.

Point (6) It wouldnt be fair for me to remark on Windows 7 yet, due to me not having used it (I dont believe in making any comments on betas, that includes Canonicals 9.04) but Im quite happy to accept what you say.

Point (7-9) True, however the package that is “bundled” with the current ver of the distro, once installed can be updated via the auto-updates. I guess its a matter of choice and what your used to, the point I was making is that a Linux myth is thats its hard to install new software, package manager really debunks that myth.

And finally!!

Completely agree with your innovation points. In my opinion the community Linux offers was something lost when Commodores flagship product disapeared from our shelves. I have to say though, in my experience I find Linux superior in every way, however Im not arrogant enough to suggest thats the case for everyone.

Thanks for coming back and making this so interesting….BTW my A500 ended with an A4000 before returning to the PC on its ultimate death. Maybe my opinions are the rants of a coder that never grew out of the demo scene!

“It’s win, win, win, win for the consumer.” – Exactly the point I make over on Microsoft Watch.

Point (1) I dont doubt for a minute your honesty, however I am wondering under what conditions you are refering to. Yes I agree a basic XP system can be butchered and cannabilized of the native bloat that Microsoft ships with it, but the performance issues of a Windows platform really come into play with 3rd party software. In respect of XP, my stance has always been that its a mature stable and pretty good piece of coding in the main. If XP was still being supported as it once was, it would be a difficult one between that and Linux.
The problem with the benefits of XP is that really MS (IMO) does not want anyone with it, btw if we are talking optimised XP, theres a distro which is geared totally towards being an XP replacement (Ill have to find the name) instead of reinventing the wheel its basing itself of the established Windows replacement API code (Wine) and was recently featured in MicroMart (an off the shelf publication) apparently stability is still an issue in this early release, but its reported to absolutely fly!

XP, I have no real issue with, although your performance remarks I would like to take you on with my personaly tweaked Gentoo distro!! As I have “butchered” XP in the way I think you are refering.

Point(2) Agree, and its one of the reasons why my stance is that I dont want mass migration to the Linux platform. I am after more of an equal share. IF/When Linux was to exceed Windows usage (a very small chance IMO) I think the nature of it being open source would aid its security, and for every one dubious coder/hacker out there, there are plenty of public spirited contributors, with keeping the diverse nature of Linux distros (and the sheer number) I think if Linux (not one particular distro) hit mainstream usage, we would still see far less exploits and issues than we have in Windows.

I do though agree, to claim total security of any platform is simply wrong.

Point (3) nothing at all to disagree with here, except to add to your comment of “The updates to my OS are free and without restriction.” – Unfortunately your product life/direction is completely at the whim of the proprietary firm owning it. Hard luck if your a Vista user wanting speed optimizations like 7. It will be time to put your hand in your wallet again. (IMO)

Point(4) Yep agree, my comments were aimed more at the OS and community that contributes to it. Does Vista ever accept volunteer coders who want to donate their time to make it better?

Point(5) As I said before you (IMO) are speaking as a person who is informed and experienced. You do not represent a Joe Bloggs (IMO) Lets be honest, Microsoft does not want you to buy 3rd party software, it wants you to be 100% MS, thats why Windows (IMO) tries to be a jack of all trades, its links and enticements to the user to purchase further MS products are what keeps the average user “locked in” (IMO)

IMO Microsoft have dilluted the meaning of the word OS over the years. Being an ex Amiga user like myself I hope you will agree when I say that the purpose of an OS is to run quietly and unassumingly in the background, taking as little of the CPU resources as possible and acting as a platform for launching other software. Take a look at Vista/Win 7 do these really represent what you were being productive with in Workbench? At the end of the day (modern hardware aside) what actually is the OS doing that you were not doing in Workbench all those years ago? Sure it looks a little prettier, but really thats it.

Point (6) It wouldnt be fair for me to remark on Windows 7 yet, due to me not having used it (I dont believe in making any comments on betas, that includes Canonicals 9.04) but Im quite happy to accept what you say.

Point (7-9) True, however the package that is “bundled” with the current ver of the distro, once installed can be updated via the auto-updates. I guess its a matter of choice and what your used to, the point I was making is that a Linux myth is thats its hard to install new software, package manager really debunks that myth.

And finally!!

Completely agree with your innovation points. In my opinion the community Linux offers was something lost when Commodores flagship product disapeared from our shelves. I have to say though, in my experience I find Linux superior in every way, however Im not arrogant enough to suggest thats the case for everyone.

Thanks for coming back and making this so interesting….BTW my A500 ended with an A4000 before returning to the PC on its ultimate death. Maybe my opinions are the rants of a coder that never grew out of the demo scene!

“It’s win, win, win, win for the consumer.” – Exactly the point I make over on Microsoft Watch.

By the way, only the Ubuntu is in a VM, that was poor gramar on my part.

My point about the military/governemnt is that the Windows sytems are not the only OSs being hacked. The security argument is one that I believe is exactly the kind of argument you accuse Windows people of using about Linux only in reverse. If you think Linux is secure out of the box, you are fooling yourself. Most people who stand up a Linux box as a web server do so in a very insecure manner. Just like most people who set up a WiFi router don’t use any encryption and end up sharing their local drives and their bandwidth with anyone in range.

1) About optimization…Although, we are discussing Vista which I will grant is a slower OS at the performance metrics level, I can teak XP to run as fast or faster than any Linux distro in a smaller memory footprint. XP is ultra configurable. More so than most people know.

2) The don’t need anti-virus/malware software argument will be dead just like it was for Apple. As soon as you have enough market penetration to make it a problem for enough people, the market will emerge.

3) Free updates to the OS can be a good or bad thing depending on what you want. To me the user interface is “Free”. In other words, I can’t stand using a Linux desktop. I’ll use OSX or Windows or my old Amiga 1000 as a desktop gladly. I said before that the desktop is just clunky to me. It’s like going back to Window 3.1 with some better graphics. Or using Swing based desktop applications. It’s all just clunky.

3) I have literally hundreds of free applications on my Windows computer. They are open source in exactly the same way that the open source apps are open on Linux. So, I have free updates without restriction. The only NOT free software is my OS and any apps I choose to pay for. The updates to my OS are free and without restriction.

4) I have a huge community that I DO contribute to. I suggest you looke at codeplex or coding for fun or dozens of other open source application support sites. There is a thriving Open Source community for Windows OSs.

5) Lockin usually happens with the applications, not so much the OS. I prefer an OS that has a mature and rapid driver process. If that is “lockin” then I’m for it. However, I have never felt “locked in” while using Windows. It’s not like they can stop me from using any application that I want, or developing my own. In fact, contrary to the FUD, MS has made huge strides in supporting open development concepts. If you don’t believe it, go to ASP.Net and look at the amount of free framework templates available for things like REST and MVC. Not to mention free IDEs for VB, C#, C/C++ and Web Dev. Full on Ajax support etc… Lockin is a dead argument

6) I will grant you that the options for file systems are superior on Linux. I keep hoping the journaling/metadata based file system that was supposed to be in Vista will get here soon. However, the new library function and other minor tweaks to the W7 file system are great. Also, the file search/interface functionality in Windows is far easier than it is on Linux, at least for me.

Check my blog about one of these features
http://jmcecil.blogspot.com/2009/02/windows-7-and-search-bar.html

7) I had an XP box web server run for 2 years, 3 months and some hours without ever being turned off or patched or anything. It was used daily. I had Fedora 9 lock up and dump me to the shell because it didn’t like c library that it had downloaded and installed. It took hours of manual copying of files in horribly complex directory structures to fix it. Probably my ignorance, but still an unecessary hassle.

99.9% of people would think 4/5 day updates is a bad thing. Still trying to get the Tuscany dudes to add default industry bindings to the SCA stack. That’s 2 years, not 4/5 days. And your comment will be “write it yourself which is the great part of open source”. My response would be, I finished writing the app in .net two years ago, because it already supported the OPEN STANDARD that the OPEN SOFTWARE doesn’t support to this day.

9) This I really disagree with. I find the package manager to be dang near useless, although like I said before it is better. Search Netbeans, get verion 5.something. Search JDK, get 19287391827312 replies, none of them the latest JDK, search Open Office you get a distro from 2 years ago. Again, it could be me, but I have no such problem on windows. The interface for app management is WAAAAY superior

10) See my above post why that isn’t necessarily a good idea when one of those programs decides to hose your system automatically. Almost every app I have on Windows updates itself. It is a total non-issue.

I could go on too, but that’s also enough

By the way, only the Ubuntu is in a VM, that was poor gramar on my part.

My point about the military/governemnt is that the Windows sytems are not the only OSs being hacked. The security argument is one that I believe is exactly the kind of argument you accuse Windows people of using about Linux only in reverse. If you think Linux is secure out of the box, you are fooling yourself. Most people who stand up a Linux box as a web server do so in a very insecure manner. Just like most people who set up a WiFi router don’t use any encryption and end up sharing their local drives and their bandwidth with anyone in range.

1) About optimization…Although, we are discussing Vista which I will grant is a slower OS at the performance metrics level, I can teak XP to run as fast or faster than any Linux distro in a smaller memory footprint. XP is ultra configurable. More so than most people know.

2) The don’t need anti-virus/malware software argument will be dead just like it was for Apple. As soon as you have enough market penetration to make it a problem for enough people, the market will emerge.

3) Free updates to the OS can be a good or bad thing depending on what you want. To me the user interface is “Free”. In other words, I can’t stand using a Linux desktop. I’ll use OSX or Windows or my old Amiga 1000 as a desktop gladly. I said before that the desktop is just clunky to me. It’s like going back to Window 3.1 with some better graphics. Or using Swing based desktop applications. It’s all just clunky.

3) I have literally hundreds of free applications on my Windows computer. They are open source in exactly the same way that the open source apps are open on Linux. So, I have free updates without restriction. The only NOT free software is my OS and any apps I choose to pay for. The updates to my OS are free and without restriction.

4) I have a huge community that I DO contribute to. I suggest you looke at codeplex or coding for fun or dozens of other open source application support sites. There is a thriving Open Source community for Windows OSs.

5) Lockin usually happens with the applications, not so much the OS. I prefer an OS that has a mature and rapid driver process. If that is “lockin” then I’m for it. However, I have never felt “locked in” while using Windows. It’s not like they can stop me from using any application that I want, or developing my own. In fact, contrary to the FUD, MS has made huge strides in supporting open development concepts. If you don’t believe it, go to ASP.Net and look at the amount of free framework templates available for things like REST and MVC. Not to mention free IDEs for VB, C#, C/C++ and Web Dev. Full on Ajax support etc… Lockin is a dead argument

6) I will grant you that the options for file systems are superior on Linux. I keep hoping the journaling/metadata based file system that was supposed to be in Vista will get here soon. However, the new library function and other minor tweaks to the W7 file system are great. Also, the file search/interface functionality in Windows is far easier than it is on Linux, at least for me.

Check my blog about one of these features
http://jmcecil.blogspot.com/2009/02/windows-7-and-search-bar.html

7) I had an XP box web server run for 2 years, 3 months and some hours without ever being turned off or patched or anything. It was used daily. I had Fedora 9 lock up and dump me to the shell because it didn’t like c library that it had downloaded and installed. It took hours of manual copying of files in horribly complex directory structures to fix it. Probably my ignorance, but still an unecessary hassle.

99.9% of people would think 4/5 day updates is a bad thing. Still trying to get the Tuscany dudes to add default industry bindings to the SCA stack. That’s 2 years, not 4/5 days. And your comment will be “write it yourself which is the great part of open source”. My response would be, I finished writing the app in .net two years ago, because it already supported the OPEN STANDARD that the OPEN SOFTWARE doesn’t support to this day.

9) This I really disagree with. I find the package manager to be dang near useless, although like I said before it is better. Search Netbeans, get verion 5.something. Search JDK, get 19287391827312 replies, none of them the latest JDK, search Open Office you get a distro from 2 years ago. Again, it could be me, but I have no such problem on windows. The interface for app management is WAAAAY superior

10) See my above post why that isn’t necessarily a good idea when one of those programs decides to hose your system automatically. Almost every app I have on Windows updates itself. It is a total non-issue.

I could go on too, but that’s also enough

JMcecil you make some valid points (I will return the politeness) however the circumstances which we are commenting under are in two separate directions.

I can appreciate you have used Linux, you certainly seem to speak from a position of being informed, however you know yourself running in a VM really is not quite the “full on” experience of a Linux rig.

You say “I don’t want to get off into areas I can’t/shouldn’t talk about, but if you think that governments and military are only being hacked on their windows desktop/server machines you are very un-informed.”

I mentioned the military because it was IMO the most highprofile in recent weeks. I fail though to recognize the point you are making. Since the major exploits both reported in the press and on forums are on a Windows platform, the fact you seem to say “well its not just the military” is rather strange since you are posting in favor of the Windows OS.

It could be argued that Linux is more secure since its user base is alot smaller, and whilst Ill tend to agree, thats of little consequence to Windows users who have fallen victim is it?

JMcecil, I am considering you an intelligent person. So when you say “You don’t know that they won’t release a performance patch for Vista. W7 isn’t out yet” Are you really believing that MS will release a SP for vista that removes one of the main selling points for 7? Has MS history ever shown this in the past?

In answer to your question:
“What is the compelling reason to go from XP to Linux?”
Im pleased you asked.

1. A more optimized and tighter system.

2. No need to spend money on 3rd party malware and security.

3. Free updates with no restrictions.

4. A community you can contribute to.

5. Freedom from lockin.

6. A better file/journalling system that doesnt need a defrag AT ALL

7. A far more stable environment where memory leaks and software failures can be intercepted by the OS far more effectively than XP (infact Ive yet to have any form of crash on my Linux platforms)

8. The almost 4-5 day updates to the code.

9. The package manager that makes downloading and installing software far easier than in Windows.

10. The fact that the auto-update will update ALL software on your system not just the OS, to keep it current.

I could go on. I wont for the moment.

JMcecil you make some valid points (I will return the politeness) however the circumstances which we are commenting under are in two separate directions.

I can appreciate you have used Linux, you certainly seem to speak from a position of being informed, however you know yourself running in a VM really is not quite the “full on” experience of a Linux rig.

You say “I don’t want to get off into areas I can’t/shouldn’t talk about, but if you think that governments and military are only being hacked on their windows desktop/server machines you are very un-informed.”

I mentioned the military because it was IMO the most highprofile in recent weeks. I fail though to recognize the point you are making. Since the major exploits both reported in the press and on forums are on a Windows platform, the fact you seem to say “well its not just the military” is rather strange since you are posting in favor of the Windows OS.

It could be argued that Linux is more secure since its user base is alot smaller, and whilst Ill tend to agree, thats of little consequence to Windows users who have fallen victim is it?

JMcecil, I am considering you an intelligent person. So when you say “You don’t know that they won’t release a performance patch for Vista. W7 isn’t out yet” Are you really believing that MS will release a SP for vista that removes one of the main selling points for 7? Has MS history ever shown this in the past?

In answer to your question:
“What is the compelling reason to go from XP to Linux?”
Im pleased you asked.

1. A more optimized and tighter system.

2. No need to spend money on 3rd party malware and security.

3. Free updates with no restrictions.

4. A community you can contribute to.

5. Freedom from lockin.

6. A better file/journalling system that doesnt need a defrag AT ALL

7. A far more stable environment where memory leaks and software failures can be intercepted by the OS far more effectively than XP (infact Ive yet to have any form of crash on my Linux platforms)

8. The almost 4-5 day updates to the code.

9. The package manager that makes downloading and installing software far easier than in Windows.

10. The fact that the auto-update will update ALL software on your system not just the OS, to keep it current.

I could go on. I wont for the moment.

Im so pleased Mr Da Costa decided to post here as his post highlights perfectly why the net can be a place where impartial advice is difficult to spot, and the reason why alternatives need to be talked about.

For those that dont know Andre Da Costa was a regular poster on Microsoft Watch. His posts are laced with words such as “feature rich”, I ask you to read his post and ask yourself do these comments sound like the honest held belief of a tech enthusiast (like his twitter profile suggests) or do they sound like something from a PR sheet with plenty of nice words but no real substance in fact.

I would encourage anyone to take a look at the posting history of this person and decide for yourself.

The mystery deepens however, since it was alleged by another user that Mr Da Costa was one of the fortunate bloggers who recieved a free laptop from Microsoft (believed to be valued around $6000) Andre never answered that allegation directly, however a supporter of his called “Ridley” claims that Andre did.

I asked Andre directly, he ignored me. I made an open letter, he ignored that. Finally when Ridley (his one “supporter” on Microsoft Watch confessed on his behalf, it was too late as another user had found pictures of a smiling Mr Da Costa with his brand new Ferrari Laptop.

This matter has been covered both on my blog and Boycott Novell (and on Microsoft Watch) and the main reason it was mentioned here was because of Mr Da Costas comment of

“think what is confusing a small group of people is the misinformation spread by people who have never really used Vista but are either using an older version of Windows or an alternative platform.”

Talking of Misinformation, Ridley (allegedly Andres supporter but more likely sock puppet) claimed Andre stated that you need a compiler just to get a music CD to play in Linux. Obvious rubbish, but there will be some people who may believe the misinformation.

I have repeatedly challenged Andre and his sock puppets to quote anything I have typed which is wrong/untrue or even out of date, to this day Im still waiting for them to do so and my guess is they wont because they cant.

Since Andre (i believe) has no or very little coding experience on ANY platform, Id suggest the fact that I was a asm coder on the A500 when he was being born (hes 22 approx), and being with Windows since 3.1 would give me a little more experience in the changes to both the computing world and Windows over the years. I am still developing for XP/Vista platform, and I am actively involved in both the rising Linux demoscene and emulation scene (cross platform)

Andre, I guess the “small negatives.” you refer to would be the Military who fell foul of Windows exploits, the stats on how many exploits for Windows there really are. What about the discontent with Vista or the numerous court cases surrounding it. How about the Zune fiasco which you described as an “unfortunate incident”

What about the allegations leveled towards Microsof? What about the Comes V Microsoft case?

Going back to Vista, the fact that Wine offers better performance on some Windows software than when running on native Windows. The memory and HD footprint of Vista compared to Linux all issues which Mr Da Costa manages to fudge around with posts like the one above.

Andre, please challenge any of the above points if you think they are untrue, and finally why dont you tell us: What does vista offer that cant be done with Linux? (please try to refrain from going down a “feature rich experience” route and just give us some facts)

and let me ask you Andre, when you said “But some persons continue to make this linger for reasons unknown.” – Are you saying there have been no Vista issues since its early RC? Is this what you are saying?

Im so pleased Mr Da Costa decided to post here as his post highlights perfectly why the net can be a place where impartial advice is difficult to spot, and the reason why alternatives need to be talked about.

For those that dont know Andre Da Costa was a regular poster on Microsoft Watch. His posts are laced with words such as “feature rich”, I ask you to read his post and ask yourself do these comments sound like the honest held belief of a tech enthusiast (like his twitter profile suggests) or do they sound like something from a PR sheet with plenty of nice words but no real substance in fact.

I would encourage anyone to take a look at the posting history of this person and decide for yourself.

The mystery deepens however, since it was alleged by another user that Mr Da Costa was one of the fortunate bloggers who recieved a free laptop from Microsoft (believed to be valued around $6000) Andre never answered that allegation directly, however a supporter of his called “Ridley” claims that Andre did.

I asked Andre directly, he ignored me. I made an open letter, he ignored that. Finally when Ridley (his one “supporter” on Microsoft Watch confessed on his behalf, it was too late as another user had found pictures of a smiling Mr Da Costa with his brand new Ferrari Laptop.

This matter has been covered both on my blog and Boycott Novell (and on Microsoft Watch) and the main reason it was mentioned here was because of Mr Da Costas comment of

“think what is confusing a small group of people is the misinformation spread by people who have never really used Vista but are either using an older version of Windows or an alternative platform.”

Talking of Misinformation, Ridley (allegedly Andres supporter but more likely sock puppet) claimed Andre stated that you need a compiler just to get a music CD to play in Linux. Obvious rubbish, but there will be some people who may believe the misinformation.

I have repeatedly challenged Andre and his sock puppets to quote anything I have typed which is wrong/untrue or even out of date, to this day Im still waiting for them to do so and my guess is they wont because they cant.

Since Andre (i believe) has no or very little coding experience on ANY platform, Id suggest the fact that I was a asm coder on the A500 when he was being born (hes 22 approx), and being with Windows since 3.1 would give me a little more experience in the changes to both the computing world and Windows over the years. I am still developing for XP/Vista platform, and I am actively involved in both the rising Linux demoscene and emulation scene (cross platform)

Andre, I guess the “small negatives.” you refer to would be the Military who fell foul of Windows exploits, the stats on how many exploits for Windows there really are. What about the discontent with Vista or the numerous court cases surrounding it. How about the Zune fiasco which you described as an “unfortunate incident”

What about the allegations leveled towards Microsof? What about the Comes V Microsoft case?

Going back to Vista, the fact that Wine offers better performance on some Windows software than when running on native Windows. The memory and HD footprint of Vista compared to Linux all issues which Mr Da Costa manages to fudge around with posts like the one above.

Andre, please challenge any of the above points if you think they are untrue, and finally why dont you tell us: What does vista offer that cant be done with Linux? (please try to refrain from going down a “feature rich experience” route and just give us some facts)

and let me ask you Andre, when you said “But some persons continue to make this linger for reasons unknown.” – Are you saying there have been no Vista issues since its early RC? Is this what you are saying?

Compelling user interface features of course include the improved organization tools, Instant Search everywhere, better ways of viewing your information in Explorer (meta data – tagging). Vista also has really brought about mainstream support of the new technologies, for instance, most machines today come with 4 GBs of RAM and Vista brings 64-bit mainstream while harnessing the power of the new machines.

A new Network Stack, Media Sharing, Sound Stack (per app volume), People Near Me (Peer to Peer) technologies. Text Services Framework for exposing applications to improved features like Speech Recognition and so much more – Direct3D, Hybrid Sleep, Mobility Center, Mobile Device Center, SideShow, Fonts that are better optimized for Clear Type, Imaging Component for handling professional image formats such as RAW native in Vista, Windows Color System, XPS Print Path and so much more. How can someone actually say that Vista is not innovative?

I think what is confusing a small group of people is the misinformation spread by people who have never really used Vista but are either using an older version of Windows or an alternative platform. We live in a world of 24 hour tech websites, enthusiast websites that focus constantly on the small negatives. Windows Vista’s early problems are in the past. But some persons continue to make this linger for reasons unknown.

Compelling user interface features of course include the improved organization tools, Instant Search everywhere, better ways of viewing your information in Explorer (meta data – tagging). Vista also has really brought about mainstream support of the new technologies, for instance, most machines today come with 4 GBs of RAM and Vista brings 64-bit mainstream while harnessing the power of the new machines.

A new Network Stack, Media Sharing, Sound Stack (per app volume), People Near Me (Peer to Peer) technologies. Text Services Framework for exposing applications to improved features like Speech Recognition and so much more – Direct3D, Hybrid Sleep, Mobility Center, Mobile Device Center, SideShow, Fonts that are better optimized for Clear Type, Imaging Component for handling professional image formats such as RAW native in Vista, Windows Color System, XPS Print Path and so much more. How can someone actually say that Vista is not innovative?

I think what is confusing a small group of people is the misinformation spread by people who have never really used Vista but are either using an older version of Windows or an alternative platform. We live in a world of 24 hour tech websites, enthusiast websites that focus constantly on the small negatives. Windows Vista’s early problems are in the past. But some persons continue to make this linger for reasons unknown.

1) You don’t know that they won’t release a performance patch for Vista. W7 isn’t out yet. They are still working on those features. Why the heck would they want to muddy the Vista waters with more beta crap. Releasing Vista prematurely is one of the things that has us having this discussion.

2) Even if the don’t release a performance patch, that is nothing new. Do Linux distros backfill down the tree when new features or improved features show up in a new distro? Usually no. Did Apple give everyone new PCs when OSX came out. Did Apple give everyone new PCs when they switched to intel? NO. The world evolves. You choose to stay up or choose to only upgrade when you absolutley have to. I have a Pentium 2 box running Windows 95 with (I think) 128MB RAM. It still runs. MS didn’t come take it from me. I can run it from now till the stupid thing goes poof. I use it because I have some DOS driver based MIDI sequencer gear that uses proprietary drivers but the company went out of business long ago.

I think it is silly that people have spent zillions of dollars to upgrade their computers when 99% of what they do is word processing and e-mail. Wordstar on a 286 could do exactly the kind of word processing that the normal day to day user does today. No slower, no faster.

1) You don’t know that they won’t release a performance patch for Vista. W7 isn’t out yet. They are still working on those features. Why the heck would they want to muddy the Vista waters with more beta crap. Releasing Vista prematurely is one of the things that has us having this discussion.

2) Even if the don’t release a performance patch, that is nothing new. Do Linux distros backfill down the tree when new features or improved features show up in a new distro? Usually no. Did Apple give everyone new PCs when OSX came out. Did Apple give everyone new PCs when they switched to intel? NO. The world evolves. You choose to stay up or choose to only upgrade when you absolutley have to. I have a Pentium 2 box running Windows 95 with (I think) 128MB RAM. It still runs. MS didn’t come take it from me. I can run it from now till the stupid thing goes poof. I use it because I have some DOS driver based MIDI sequencer gear that uses proprietary drivers but the company went out of business long ago.

I think it is silly that people have spent zillions of dollars to upgrade their computers when 99% of what they do is word processing and e-mail. Wordstar on a 286 could do exactly the kind of word processing that the normal day to day user does today. No slower, no faster.

First, I said the “complaints from non-users” bit because I’ve had real life, in person conversations with dozens of “I hate Vista” people who when pressed have never used it. I work for a large company that uses XP internally and supports the government which is primarily XP. However, many of technical staff are Linux users personnaly. I can’t tell you how much FUD I’ve had to chumb through to even have an intelligent conversation about Vista.

I made the comment about my daughters PC because one of the huge complaints that I constantly hear is the vapid loop around Aero and Vista “performance”. It was to point out that Vista runs great on even marginal equipment. The one over-riding factor is RAM. Nothing else.

You put words in my mouth about the compiler for Linux bit. I never said that. However, the package management and software discovery process is still exceedingly difficult to use. Although, it is greatly improved. FWIW I have installations of Fedora 9(KDE 4) and 10(default gnome) as well as a Ubuntu 8 that I run in a VM. I also have an older Gentoo laptop that I haven’t used in ages. I don’t claim to be an expert, but I do try to keep up with the releases so that I at least am exposed to the current environment.

However, I have fought serious lack of drivers or horrible drivers for my HP Color LaserJet Printer, M-Audio sound card, RME audio bay, NVidia 7, 8 and 9 series cards (although that has improved somewhat), n based network cards from both Linksys and D-Link etc… Even the drivers that work do require far more manual intervention to try to keep them working properly.

When I say I like open source software I mean software like the entire Glassfish stack, the various Apache group projects, dozens of applications on codeplex.. etc. I tend to find that I prefer COTS for things like office. Although I like WinMerge, I still bought diffDog. I have used StarUML but prefer UModel.

So, when I say open source software I am primarily talking about projects that bridge technology gaps more than business application type projects. Although it isn’t that cut and dried.

I don’t want to get off into areas I can’t/shouldn’t talk about, but if you think that governments and military are only being hacked on their windows desktop/server machines you are very un-informed.

Finally, what does W7 offer that XP/Vista does not. In a word NOTHING. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. There was no compelling case for business to move from XP to Vista, there still isn’t one to go from XP to W7. What is the compelling reason to go from XP to Linux? The same nothing. W7 simply offers a more comfortable user experience. I feel totally constrained and annoyed by ugliness and too much user interaction to do even simple tasks when I fire up even a heavily customized KDE desktop.

Anyhow, I hope you aren’t taking this as a flame war. I want to keep it above board as well. Cheers,

First, I said the “complaints from non-users” bit because I’ve had real life, in person conversations with dozens of “I hate Vista” people who when pressed have never used it. I work for a large company that uses XP internally and supports the government which is primarily XP. However, many of technical staff are Linux users personnaly. I can’t tell you how much FUD I’ve had to chumb through to even have an intelligent conversation about Vista.

I made the comment about my daughters PC because one of the huge complaints that I constantly hear is the vapid loop around Aero and Vista “performance”. It was to point out that Vista runs great on even marginal equipment. The one over-riding factor is RAM. Nothing else.

You put words in my mouth about the compiler for Linux bit. I never said that. However, the package management and software discovery process is still exceedingly difficult to use. Although, it is greatly improved. FWIW I have installations of Fedora 9(KDE 4) and 10(default gnome) as well as a Ubuntu 8 that I run in a VM. I also have an older Gentoo laptop that I haven’t used in ages. I don’t claim to be an expert, but I do try to keep up with the releases so that I at least am exposed to the current environment.

However, I have fought serious lack of drivers or horrible drivers for my HP Color LaserJet Printer, M-Audio sound card, RME audio bay, NVidia 7, 8 and 9 series cards (although that has improved somewhat), n based network cards from both Linksys and D-Link etc… Even the drivers that work do require far more manual intervention to try to keep them working properly.

When I say I like open source software I mean software like the entire Glassfish stack, the various Apache group projects, dozens of applications on codeplex.. etc. I tend to find that I prefer COTS for things like office. Although I like WinMerge, I still bought diffDog. I have used StarUML but prefer UModel.

So, when I say open source software I am primarily talking about projects that bridge technology gaps more than business application type projects. Although it isn’t that cut and dried.

I don’t want to get off into areas I can’t/shouldn’t talk about, but if you think that governments and military are only being hacked on their windows desktop/server machines you are very un-informed.

Finally, what does W7 offer that XP/Vista does not. In a word NOTHING. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. There was no compelling case for business to move from XP to Vista, there still isn’t one to go from XP to W7. What is the compelling reason to go from XP to Linux? The same nothing. W7 simply offers a more comfortable user experience. I feel totally constrained and annoyed by ugliness and too much user interaction to do even simple tasks when I fire up even a heavily customized KDE desktop.

Anyhow, I hope you aren’t taking this as a flame war. I want to keep it above board as well. Cheers,

So without further ado, heres continuing our discussion on Twitter.

In regards to backwards comp issues, since Windows 7 is more than just based of Vista (IMO) it is Vista, there should be no excuses for any issues arising between the two. The backward comp issue is directed at software between XP –> 7 since Vista has had some issues here, I wondered if these were sorted out for 7?

Quote “I can say that Windows 7 on my 2 1/2 year old Gateway MX6455 runs better than Windows Vista”

Whilst obviously thats your opinion, dont you think its a little bit of a kick in the teeth for any Vista users who spent money on a system? and according to Jmcecil that doesnt appear their experience since they consider Vista “first rate” Dont you think this faster performing 7 should have been issued to Vista customers via a SP?

Quote “Open Office is a very good suite of software and I will recommend it to people because it has compatibility with Microsoft Office formats/files.”

I think you’ve hit another issue with using Microsoft products. I fully understand why you use them, and youre free to do so, but why should an open office user feel that MSoffice compat is a good thing? Proprietary file formats are one of the issues that lead to lockin and lack of choice in your software solutions.

I was just saying on another thread, the initial rumbling of discontent with proprietary was being seen a few years ago, yet nobody noticed. The example of this would have to be divX/xVID, now we see the EU getting involved with IE and have to consider that the next move will be on proprietary formats themselves, which by their nature (IMO) are anti-trust. Another more recent example would be that of OGG and I can quite see another Xvid incident with that format aswell.

Ill see if there any responses that are posted here in regards to my two posts, and then, if I may I will return tomorrow with a second part!

Regards
Goblin.